A discussion about the fate of police officer Darren Wilson on Sunday morning turned into a heated argument between former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani and Georgetown Professor Michael Eric Dyson over policing in Black communities.
Appearing on NBC's Meet the Press, Giuliani expressed sympathy towards the grand jurors deciding whether or not to indict Wilson for killing unarmed teenager Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. Dyson, meanwhile, came to the defense of the protesters, saying that Governor Jay Nixon’s decision to preemptively enact a state of emergency sent the wrong signal. The two's opposing views on the subject sparked a fiery debate on the cause of violence in Black communities.
“Mayor Giuliani speaks about what's, you know, unconscionable and what should be indicted. What should be indicted is the criminal justice system that continues to impose undue burdens on African-American, Latino and other poor people,” Dyson explained.
Giuliani disagreed, saying people should be focused on the reason behind the heavy police presence seen in Black communities. “We are talking about the significant exception, 93% of Blacks are killed by other Blacks,” Giuliani argued.
Dyson called the former mayor and presidential candidate out for drawing a false parallel, saying police officers are agents of the state sworn to uphold the law. “Black people who kill Black people go to jail," explained Dyson. "White people who are policemen who kill Black people do not go to jail. If a [grand] jury can indict a ham sandwich, why is it taking so long?”
Giuliani continued to argue that the problem is rooted in the Black community. “What about the poor Black child that is killed by another Black child? Why aren't you protesting that?” Giuliani asked Dyson. He responded that most criminals involved in Black-on-Black violence end up in jail.
The debate became especially tense when Giuliani interrupted to ask, “Why don’t you cut it down so so many white police officers don’t have to be in Black areas? The white police officers wouldn’t be there if you weren’t killing each other 70-75% of the time.”
“Look at this! This is the defensive mechanism of white supremacy in your mind, sir!” Dyson erupted.
Watch the entire exchange between Dyson and Giuliani below.
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