Michelle Obama is reflecting on just how much her life changed after meeting Barack Obama, and she’s clear that the former president of the United States made her life bigger.

In a rare joint interview and cover story for People, the former first lady said that without her husband, she likely would have lived “a beautiful life here” in Chicago, but “it would have been smaller.” Michelle said Barack pushed her to think beyond the path she thought she was on and gave her “the courage” to see what else her Harvard law degree could do besides lead her to a traditional legal career. 

“I think I wouldn’t have had the kind of impact,” Michelle said. “But because of who my husband is, he offered all of us — our girls, my mom, my family — a broader sense of what’s possible in life.” She also called Barack her “ballast,” adding, “He was like, ‘I got you.’ And however hard it’s been, the ups and downs, he’s got me.” Barack, for his part, said he knew early on that Michelle was “a one-of-a-kind woman with the integrity and character, smarts and values to make me better,” and added, “Just being with her made me better, and she still does.” 

Michelle, for her part, described them as “each other’s counterbalance,” while Barack joked that the arrangement has worked out pretty well for him. 

The interview comes alongside a new People cover shoot from the Obama Presidential Center in Chicago, where the couple was photographed embracing, laughing, and leaning into each other while celebrating the space’s opening. People described the vibe as warm and easy, with the pair moving through the shoot “like 34-year-married newlyweds.” 

The interview also leans into the personal details that made their love story feel so lived-in from the beginning. Michelle recalled their early days in Chicago, including Barack’s “crappy little apartment” on 53rd Street with no air-conditioning and trips to Baskin-Robbins, where their first kiss became part of the couple’s mythology. Barack even joked that there is now a plaque there. 

The Obamas also used the conversation to reflect on where they are now. Barack said he does not miss the White House “pomp and circumstance” or having to wear a tie every day, though he does miss the work and camaraderie. He also said he barely keeps up with daughters Malia and Sasha, whom he called “cooler, smarter, funnier” than he is. Michelle added that the girls reflect the promise of their generation and that the Obama Presidential Center is meant to hand hope forward to the next one. 

At the close of the interview, Barack said the symbolism of his presidency helped kids imagine bigger possibilities, and Michelle added that his presidency mattered not only because he is Black, but because of how he showed up as a leader, father, and husband. And…we miss him as our fearless leader.

Check out the full exclusive chat on People.com.