Interview: ESPN’s Bomani Jones And Pablo Torre On Race And Representation
It’s a Monday afternoon in New York City, and ESPN’s High Noon is about to tape at the worldwide leader’s swanky Seaport District Studios. Into the studio walks one of the two men whose names appear on the marquee.
Bomani Jones strides confidently, says hello to the small group (of which I am one) on hand to watch, and the production crew. He takes his seat on the set and scrolls through his phone nonchalantly as he awaits his co-host.
Pablo Torre emerges a few moments later, with a noticeable pep in his step and enthusiastically says hello and gets right to his seat. A few minutes later he tells us, “feel free to laugh if anything is funny.”
Jones quipped, “he means laugh at his jokes.”
That’s the dynamic of these two friends, that for over a year (the show debuted June 4th 2018) have led one of the most talked about ESPN studio shows in recent memory.
When the show debuted, it was a tense time for the company. The “stick to sports” mantra was trumpeted by ESPN’s harshest critics. You know, those right-wing bloggers that said the company had become too consumed with “politics.”
SC6, the re-imagined SportsCenter starring Jemele Hill and Michael Smith, had ended earlier that year (March 2018) amid a belief by some that too much air time was spent on protesting NFL players and not enough on the actual games on the field.
A studio show with Jones and Torre as the headliners was just what those critics needed to continue their misguided outrage.
Before the show aired it was being labeled.
Will it be the “smart” show? The “woke show”? Or the “non-sports sports show”?
In an interview with The Ringer, High Noon’s coordinating producer Matt Kelliher joked the show should be called Bomani and Pablo Talk Down to You.
To be fair, Jones and Torre are smart. But not because they have degrees from prestigious schools.
There is a level of intuitiveness and understanding both men possess that make them who they are, which in turn makes High Noon what it is.
Put plainly, they get it.
They are able to convey information and opinions about sports in a style that is their own, but in a way that any audience can receive it.
That’s the most important component to making good television, and make no mistake, that’s what Jones and Torre want to do first and foremost.
“It doesn’t matter if you can talk about sports in ways other people can’t, if the people that are listening can’t hear it. You know?” Jones told BET. “Relaying this stuff to the audience is of far greater importance than whatever idea of difference you have about yourself.”
Following the taping of the show we retreat to one of the offices inside the ESPN building and talk about their experiences as television show hosts: What it means to have minority representation in media. And what the future of the media business could end up being, if we’re not careful.
In discussing the importance of representation in sports media, Jones look back at what has historically been the paradigm within sports talk radio.
“It becomes important to have Black people in these spaces because what we don’t want is what the history of sports talk radio has basically been, which is White dudes complaining about Black dudes on the radio, right? If you listen to who the hosts are, and it trickles down to who the callers are and it becomes this circular thing, and this same set of people are hammering this other group of people. That brings out the worst very often in the people that are doing it. It is very important to have people who have more in common with the athletes there because otherwise this could turn into something we don’t want it to be.”
There is an allure to sports that is hard to resist. For most people, the chances of playing professional sports is infinitesimal. If you are a person of color the chances of becoming a member of the sports media, while not as small, aren’t that great either.
The push by heads of media platforms to produce more and more quantitative based sports content is on the rise. You see it in the way, football, basketball and baseball are covered. Not having a quantitative background could be a huge barrier for people of color.
Black and Latino students are less likely to pass Algebra I and less likely to attend schools that offer advanced math classes than their White and Asian peers according to data.
If math isn’t going so well for you in middle school and high school, what are the chances you decide to pursue an undergraduate degree in a math related field?
“The problem that is at play there is not one that the [media] industry is equipped to fix. The industry can help in some ways. But the industry can’t change the fact that education in this country by and large has discouraged non-White males, with the obvious glaring exception of Asians. Everybody else is being discouraged from engaging in mathematical type of stuff,” said Jones.
“I do worry about a wall of access being denied because of the quantitative stuff. But the quantitative stuff is symptom. The disease...if it ain’t that, it’s going to be something else.”
“But there’s a wrinkle to the quantitative stuff,” Torre retorted. “So one irony I think, and one correction. I don’t think anyone is encouraging Asians to get into math outside of their own families.”
“Yes, just nobody’s keeping them out!” Jones remarked.
The cameras have long been turned off and we’ve been talking for almost 30 minutes. That’s the kind of authentic banter both men would engage in if they were having brunch on a Sunday, or while watching a game, or on the set of their show.
“As much as I agree with the broad strokes. Something that is true about the quantitative analytics thing, is that it enables certain people who also never had access to this stuff. That’s the other side of the coin,” Torre said. “There is a disease here. But I think it’s also important to note there is complexity within said disease, in terms of the trickle down to all the people who may or may not be getting jobs in general.”
Jones and Torre took different paths to arrive at the same destination. No one path better or easier to navigate than the other. But they know what they’ve done is largely not replicable.
However, acquiring the knowledge and having the diligence to go beyond the surface can give you the opportunity to make it in this business.
“Learn how to write and report as a basic skill set,” said Torre. “Develop taste. Know what you like and why you like it. Know what the person you like is doing, so that you can break it down structurally.”
“Knowing what you’re talking about matters more than anything else,” Jones said. “They’re tuning in to find out about sports. If they think you’re opinions about sports are compelling, you got a chance to stick around. If you don’t know the sports, you have no chance.”
Jarod Hector is a New York City born-and-raised sports and pop culture enthusiast. A multimedia content creator & host who enjoys nuanced discussions of the intersection between sports, culture, and society. He believes My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy is the greatest album of the past 20 years, and says if you root for billionaire owners over millionaire athletes you're part of the problem. You can find him on Twitter and Instagram @jshector.
